Spider-Man: First Blood
"Let's do the Gang War again!"
Hi, we are Dapper Dan Gvozden and Mischievous Mark Ginocchio, co-hosts of the Amazing Spider-Talk podcast. With each newsletter we hope to give you greater access into our thoughts on the world of Spider-Man!
On the latest Amazing Spider-Talk Podcast we’re talking about the history of Spider-Ham and chronicling Rek-Rap’s first adventure as a vigilante, so read on to find out our thoughts on the continued roll-out of “Gang War” titles and to hear a favorite holiday-tale from our podcast’s first year. But first, please subscribe to our Substack!
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We’ve got our early podcast/video review of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #39 already available on the platform. Check it out!
Alright, a war has erupted… so there is no time to delay! In this edition, we’ll be reviewing all the latest Spidey B-titles in “Gang War”, looking back at Spider-Man’s history with gangs, answering your questions, and telling a heartwarming Christmas story that involves Rambo and Spider-Man! Seriously!
Swarm’s B(ee)-Title Reviews
With every new edition of the Amazing Spider-Talk Substack, Dan and Mark will venture to write short reviews of all the various Spider-Man books (and major Marvel releases) that have released since the previous newsletter. Sometimes our arch-villain Swarm might chime in as well. So “bee” prepared!
Daredevil: Gang War #1
Dan: If you like big, splashy, ninja action that plays itself out across a plus-sized issue of superhero comics, with little plot, then Daredevil: Gang War #1 is going to be for you. This isn’t meant as a backhanded compliment to this issue, which works on its own merits, but as an identification of the type of story being told here. There are interesting wrinkles to Electra-as-Daredevil’s latest adventure: corrupt cops forming their own gang, moral wrestlings over Electra’s role as a vigilante, and a mysterious new villain that can go toe-to-toe with our protagonist. These plot inclusions don’t offer many unique insights into the role of Daredevil (most other heroes would fit into this story without any major changes) and the world around her. Given that the Heat (a gang made up of cops) operate at the chief villains here, it’s a shame this comic isn’t interested in wading to the politics of modern policing and how that might reflect Electra’s role as a formerly murderous vigilante. Instead it is content to use some pretty standard superhero tropes to kick off this action-packed story that allows the focus to be on the highly-detailed artwork.
Penciller Sergio Dávila’s illustrations do a great job grounding the street-level action of this caper, especially as Electra flings herself through the air at her enemies. There’s not a ton of variety in the compositions, mostly opting for clarity over artistry, especially as rendered by the limited, cool color-palette of Ceci de la Cruz. I would instantly trade some of that clarity for the artwork to better emphasize what makes Electra’s unique brand of action so special. Additionally, I personally prefer that my superhero comics lean into the more modern, iconographic visual style than rendered realism and detail, unless pulled off by a trust master of the form, like Checchetto, so I found this visual approach to be not quite as distinct as I’ve known Daredevil comics to be in the past. This work is more akin to Mike Hawthorne rather than Chris Samnee or Alex Maleev.
It’s a decent debut to this subplot of the larger “Gang War” and uses Daredevil’s inclusion on a team and as a solo hero to tip-toe into the mind of Electra, what has brought her to this point in her life, and to challenge her newly adopted no-kill code. That code seems to be at the heart of Electra’s internal struggles in this event, which as a Spider-Man reader who had to deal with this moralizing constantly over the past…. forever… is admittedly exhausting. I hope this book eventually dials a bit down on the action to flesh out the specific events of Electra’s own story, without focusing so heavily on the “will she/won’t she” moralizing. I think with a few smart choices this title could truly help to define this new role for Electra in the same way that Miles’ role in “Gang War” is already doing for him.
Mark: The first installment of Elektra’s “Gang War” miniseries is a visually attractive, but narratively shallow comic filled with lots of big action set pieces, and fantastic pencil-work courtesy of Sergio Davilia. All the same, was there anything featured in the pages here that made me think “this is a must-read comic” in terms of appreciating the broader “Gang War” event? Absolutely not.
Instead, it feels a lot like a comic being geared towards Spider-Man fans buying this comic, despite the fact that they wouldn’t normally be buying an Elektra/Daredevil-led comic if not for the fact that it’s a tie-in mini. Meaning, we get a lot of Elektra/Daredevil 101 exposition about their past, their relationship, Matt Murdock’s status quo over in his book, etc. Additionally, there are some perfunctory, bordering on obligatory Spider-Man appearances here that add very little to the overall action of the story.
While I hate being the kind of comic book fan to sit here at a keyboard and tell folks what they should be writing about in their comics (I’m serious — I don’t like doing that, at all), this book ultimately falls short for me because it fails to truly justify what the added value is for involving Elektra in this storyline. I get that she’s “street level” and if we’re going to have a huge, company-wide “Gang War” story, you got to have SOMEONE representing Hell’s Kitchen (and Matt Murdock thinks he’s a priest right now), but in addition to this being a big event, it’s a Spider-Man event, meaning I would still like to see these tie-in books incorporate some sensibilities from that lens. One would think a book starring Elektra has a lot of potential for good hero vs. hero conflict vis-à-vis Spider-Man, but this doesn’t seem to be what this mini is geared towards doing.
Luke Cage: Gang War #2
Dan: For all my gripes that Electra’s role in Daredevil: Gang War #1 doesn’t find a way to tap into the real world political themes that the book is butting up against, I did commend Luke Cage: Gang War #1 for doing so. So, I’m disappointed to say that much of what I enjoyed about the first issue is sanded down here for a pretty standard superhero romp that fails to dive deeper into the complexities of Luke Cage’s role as mayor of New York City during a gang war and embrace of a new vigilante persona.
It doesn't help that the writing around the street-level action here is pretty silly, even for a superhero comic. Luke goes about recruiting all of his familiar friends for a super-team where he’s bouncing bullets of his chest, bantering with his wife, and chatting with cops, all while expecting no one to recognize him. Look, I get that Superman hides behind glasses as Clark Kent, but at least he’s trying to put up a front.
And then you’ve got the villain here: the return of the Spider-Slayer, Alistair Smythe. I was originally excited that he was included in this book, at least to further tie the events of it into the world of Spider-Man more tightly. I imagined robotic creations the likes of which I hadn’t seen since the days of Superior Spider-Man returning to the streets of New York and shaking up what has so far been a fairly street-level affair. Instead, all of his potential is squandered by having the famously creative villain just utilizing his own versions of LMDs to take on Spidey’s allies. Penciller Ramon Bachs’ work was solid in the heavy dialogue scenes in the previous issue but really stood out when Luke was left alone to ponder his role in New York’s hierarchy. Here, his work is less defined, particularly in his fairly boring action scenes. There’s nothing about the artwork that conveys the movement of these characters and the dynamic action they are meant to perform. It’s all a shame, as this went from my favorite tie-in book with a unique lens on the battle waging across the city and inside one man, to just any other superhero title that I pick up week to week.
Mark: There’s nothing about this comic that’s going to set the comic book world on fire, but I also feel this may be the most competent “tie-in” to “Gang War” we received in this most recent batch of stories.
As Dan notes, this is basically just another version of “let’s get the gang back together” with Luke Cage teaming up with Danny Rand, Jessica Jones and (to a much lesser degree in terms of Luke Cage-mythology) Cloak and Dagger. But I also feel this is an effective instance of advancing Cage’s conundrum of trying to be a “by the book” Mayor of New York (in the wake of Wilson Fisk’s reign of terror) while also showing great disregard to the “rules” Fisk established because it is conceivably for the “greater good.”
Using Alistair Smythe in a storyline that’s supposed to be focused on all of the big players in Marvel’s criminal underworld is … curious at best. And yet, I also feel like this comic does a solid job of toeing the line between telling a story that’s deeply set in Luke Cage’s world while also incorporating enough elements of Spider-Man’s world to make this an actual “tie-in” to a Spider-Man event, rather than just another miniseries that has a label on it.
Miles Morales: Spider-Man (vol. 2) #13
Dan: Look, misleading covers aren’t anything new in the pages of Big 2 superhero comics. Some are particularly egregious and show something that doesn’t even remotely happen in the issue, I’m looking at you Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #2, and most are just a result of exaggerating or hyping up the issue’s events. But man, you can’t show me Peter and Miles fighting the Hobgoblin, my man Roderick Kingsley, after teasing that fight in Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #39 and not include anything remotely related to that moment in the content of the issue and not expect me to react negatively.
And then, as if it wasn’t injury enough, the Hobgoblin is replaced by the Frost Pharaoh and Bumbler, two characters who originated in Miles’ book but couldn’t be called anything but D-list. But okay, fine. The fight between them is beautifully illlustrated by Vicentini as it plays with scale, seasons, and the basic elements of nature. And, well, the whole thing serves as an appropriate follow-up to Miles’ growing sense of independence as a hero as he reflects on Peter’s negligence, while showing Frost Pharaoh, Bumbler, and their goons the pointy end of his newly upgraded venom sword. Also, did I mention this book is tremendous to look at?
So, fine. Ziglar and Vicentini do it again. Another wonderful chapter in the life of Miles Morales that manages to continue his maturation into the hero we all know he should be in the pages of Marvel Comics, a decent if misleading tie-in to “Gang War”, and a continuing statement of why this is the Miles Morales: Spider-Man run we should have been getting for a decade. I’m happy. But don’t do this again. Next issue better see Miles’ newfound strength tested against the devious Hobgoblin or I riot.
Mark: I appreciate that after a three-parter that seemed a bit too out of the usual element for a Miles Morales story, we got back to a more grounded story here that also does a fantastic job furthering the conflict between Miles and Peter that was laid out in Amazing Spider-Man - Gang War: First Strike. With that said, as a storyline designed to push forward the overall “Gang War” event, as this book was marketed as, I feel like this was the weakest of a series of solid tie-ins and event-storyline takeovers.
Cody Ziglar does a solid job filling in more context for Miles and his current stage of life — his growing independence, and perhaps a bit of a chip on his shoulder following his honest-to-goodness resentment of Peter’s perceived abandonment. At the same time, while I’m the first to admit I have criticized the Marvel Comic line for neglecting to leverage the same Peter/Miles mentor/protégé dynamic that has made both “Spider-Verse” movies such a treat, this whole subplot that is unfurling in the pages of ASM and Miles Morales: Spider-Man comes across as classic telling, not showing storytelling. Prior to this storyline, we’ve received very little page count dedicated to planting the seeds to this story, so while I agree — these characters should be doing more for each other, and Peter’s responsibility should be to helping Miles — it also rings kinda hallow for me that we’re suddenly getting all this now.
At the same time, as Dan notes, going from the prospects of Miles taking off on his own to neutralize the Hobgoblin, to having him have a “silly” battle against two D-listers reads as a bait and switch of the worst kind. This is still a fun comic, but there’s potential for so much more here.
Venom (vol. 5) #28
Dan: This story ends with Flash Thompson asking “Where the hell is Eddie Brock?” It is the question I’ve been asking since the start of this three-issue diversion into the symbiotic rescue of Bren and the takedown of Noname (a villain so forgettable… they didn’t even name him). I don’t ask the question because I’m genuinely intrigued by the mystery but because I feel like this title has gone completely astray with Ram V’s departure and the hard pivot away from centering Eddie and Dylan’s simultaneous journeys to find each other.
Instead, I’m reading a title about Black Widow getting a symbiote and a bunch of kids, wearing monsters that bulk them up to adult-size, fighting against a pretty random threat that I couldn’t be bothered to unravel. At this point, I think this title is in serious needs of reconsidering its publishing schedule and focus. Either Al Ewing is able to pick up the pieces of what he and Ram V were planning on doing and carry it to the finish line sooner than later, or we seem to be headed towards a on-again, off-again focus to this book that is bound to lose readership and force the title to rely on more gimmicks to sell issues (like Venomizing more characters, or, if I may be so bold as to pitch… a new symbiote offspring!).
As to this issue itself, it isn’t without its own qualities. There is a hyper-intense hostage situation involving Bren that pushes Toxin to the absolute limits, bloody artwork that captures the flowing, sinewy flesh of the symbiotes quite well, and heck… maybe it’s good to get away from the cosmic stuff every once in awhile for something more grounded in a Venom title. I just really couldn’t be bothered to care because every one of these stories prolongs the main story, which itself seems to be going through the paces of its clockwork design.
Mark: I was planning to be all clever and lead off my review with the “where the hell is Eddie Brock?” line and then Dan goes and just puts it out there right away. Dammit Dan, get your own brain.
The fact of the matter is, Venom as a series has moved further and further away from what I tend to look for in a book led by this character and while Torunn Gronbekk unquestionably has talents as a storyteller, I tend to feel they aren’t shining on Venom — or at least shining to my liking.
I said this when this arc first kicked off, but introducing yet another symbiote via Natasha Romanov was not something I was looking forward to reading about. The unfolding subplot involving children being infected by other symbiotes has the makings of a gritty Eastern European crime thriller, but I find myself month after month longing for a time when I opened Venom and it was a story about a flawed but fascinating anti-hero struggling with his personal demons while trying to control an alien being that is akin to an actual demon. I get that stories need to evolve — as do characters — but runs like this current one leave me pondering whether or not the Donny Cates-led big-world storytelling has done more harm than good in the long run for this character. By creating a new baseline for the character, future iterations of creative teams have just moved further and further from the core characteristics that make a Venom solo series worth reading to me.
Spider-Gwen: SMASH #1
Dan: What if I were to tell you that this is the best Spider-Gwen comic since the original run of comics from Jason Latour, Robbi Rodriguez, and Rico Renzi? I mean, perhaps you’d think I was damning this comic with faint praise, especially considering that Marvel has had almost no idea what to do with Gwen since that team concluded their run half a decade ago. Instead, we’ve gotten a bunch of gimmicky mini-series that have seen Gwen face off of one round of clones after another, whether they are from the Jackal or just pulled from somewhere else in the multiverse.
But, that stops here; with Spider-Gwen: SMASH #1 we finally return to Earth-65 for a story that directly addresses how much Gwen has abandoned her home and the people she loves in it. I can sense your hesitancy! “Dan, that can’t possibly be true! Don’t you see the gross sexualized cover to this comic that objectifies a teenage Gwen?”
Yes! I do see that, and I don’t like it any more than you do. But, I’m begging you to ignore it because the teen drama from writer Melissa Flores, accompanied by appropriately aged and wonderfully expressive pencils and painterly colors of Enid Balám, are the best part of this comic. Sure, there are some superheroics where Spider-Gwen (Ghost Spider) and Dazzler team up to fight some rather lame villains, but they are mostly perfunctory when compared to the emotional drama that Gwen shares with her wonderful supporting cast. The specific ordeal that Gwen faces is a classic trope of the Spider-genre: how can she balance her role as Ghost Spider and Gwen Stacy. Her father is supportive as ever, despite missing his daughter due to her dalliances into the multiverse, but Gwen is truly on her last leg with her bandmates, who have begged her to leave Ghost Spider to the side when performing. It’s all very light, but it’s enough to suggest that the creators behind these books have a stronger grasp on what makes the character appealing, rather than trying to draw people in with speculative tactics and Gwen-variants.
I can’t promise this will live up to the punk-rock ethos of the original run, but if the past few Spider-Gwen stories have turned you off of the character, this could be the one to bring you back.
Mark: After the past few Spider-Gwen (or Ghost Spider or Spider-Woman Gwen Stacy or whatever Marvel wants to call her) miniseries read like the comic book equivalent of wet cotton candy, I readily admit I went into this new series from Melissa Flores and Enid Balam with a bit of reluctance. However, I was pleasantly surprised by what I’ve read in this first comic.
What’s most effective of what Flores and Balam have put forward here is its simplicity. The original Spider-Gwen storylines from Jason Latour and Robbie Rodriguez were successful because they focused almost exclusively on telling a story about Gwen Stacy, Spider-Woman, in her universe — centered around her problems, shortcomings, insecurities, etc. Once Latour and Rodriguez left the book (and arguably, due to the success of “Into the Spider-Verse”), it feels like this character has been featured in stories that were more geared towards her hopping across universes, meeting other versions (or clones) of herself, etc. While I’m not disputing that there isn’t a place in Marvel’s comic book line to be heavily focused on the larger “Spider-Verse,” I also don’t believe that Gwen Stacy is the best character to use for stories like this mainly because the entire conceit behind her character — that she is an alt universe spider-character who famously died in the 616 and whose “Uncle Ben moment” is a straight inversion of that origin since it involves the death of Peter Parker — demonstrates a form of singularity or uniqueness that is cheapened by the existence of other Gwen characters.
Anyway, this comic gets back to doing what Latour and Rodriguez did so well, aka, introduce new iterations of familiar characters — in this case Dazzler and her band of luminaries which includes names like Rick Jones — and playing with a new status quo. The thematic qualities of Gwen feeling out of place and “alone” in her current universe also introduced a needed depth to the character that has been missing these past few minis. Needless to say, I’m looking forward to what comes next.
Mark’s Weekly Top 5
As we’re seeing unfold in the pages of Amazing Spider-Man, Spidey has had several memorable battles with gang leaders and underworld goons. In this week’s Top 5, Mark outlines his five favorite Spider-Man “crime bosses:”
This Week In Spider-Man History
An unintentional “Gang War” tie-in! 60 years ago, Stan Lee and Steve Ditko (and Jack Kirby, via a cover image) introduced some of Spider-Man’s earliest underworld villains: The Enforcers. Montana, Ox and Fancy Dan (as opposed to Dapper Dan) first appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #10 (along with the Big Man, who was later revealed to be Frederick Foswell).
Mark’s Comic Book Meditations
When Mark launched Chasing Amazing in 2010, the blog chronicled his “quest” to collect every issue of Amazing Spider-Man and featured a series of posts that recalled memories and meditations around specific comics he came to own. As part of this newsletter, we’re resurrecting these remembrances with some new wrinkles, and will also occasionally chronicle some other comics Mark has purchased since completing his ASM run in 2014.
“Frost” — Amazing Spider-Man #700.1-#700.2
It’s funny just how much the “internet,” and more specifically social media, has allowed me to create new meditations about my collection — and added a new layer of connection not only to the comics themselves, but to the creators as well.
Similar to my story about Amazing Spider-Man #129, my anecdote about the Spider-Man “Frost” storyline — a two-part arc that was published as part of a series of Amazing Spider-Man “Point One” issues released by Marvel at the end of 2013 when Peter Parker was still “dead,” and Otto Octavius was galavanting as the Superior Spider-Man — this is a meditation that starts with a tweet. When the solicitations for December 2013’s comics came out (yes, Dan, there was a time when I paid closer attention to solicitations — maybe that’s the biggest Christmas miracle of all) — I was caught by the fact that a story called “Frost” was being written by “Rambo’s Father,” David Morrell. Morrell wrote the 1972 novel First Blood which famously introduced the world to a Vietnam War vet named “Rambo.” Of course this novel gave way to one of the most famous action movie franchises (starring Sylvester Stallone) and the creator of that (along with Klaus Janson, a pretty legendary artist in his own right) were going to write a one-off Spider-Man story during a period where fans were seemingly desperate for some “new” Peter Parker content. Consider me sold.
For further context, consider that this comic was coming out towards the tail’s end of “year one” of the Superior Spider-Talk podcast and at that time, Dan and I were still building our library of shows. Part of that building included trying to line up as many quality guests for our podcast as we could (especially since Dan Slott, the main writer of Spider-Man at the time conjured every excuse in the book not to come on our show).
Shockingly, when it came to Morrell, I didn’t even have to search far and wide to convince him to come on our show. One day I logged onto Twitter (still not calling it “X” Elon) when I saw I had a new follower named David Morrell. I didn’t immediately make the connection, but after some quick Googling put two and two together and knew what I had to do. Because he was a follower I was able to Direct Message him. Clearly, as a relative neophyte to comic book writing (he had only written one other story, a Captain America mini, before this one), he was trying to connect himself to the comic book media and saw that one of us was a Spider-Man blogger and podcaster and sought me out (or had an agent/handler who did it…). So a few exchanges later, Dan and I were going to interview someone responsible for creating one of the world’s most famous action-heroes, who was also going to write a Spider-Man story. What could be a better end for our first year of podcasting?
If memory serves, Morrell came on our show the weekend before the first part of Frost was set to drop. He came across as authentically thoughtful about his approach (listen to our interview with him), while simultaneously aware of the fact that he wasn’t a comic book writer by trade. Instead, he was just setting out to tell the most sincere Peter Parker/Spider-Man story that he could.
Just the genuine warmth and kindness that came across in this interview 100% influenced my review of the first-part of this story — which I hailed at the time as “one of the most beautifully written Spider-Man scripts” since Amazing Spider-Man #400. OK, maybe time has exposed that as a bit of a hot take. Regardless, despite the fact that the story really didn’t have a “time and place” in the Spider-Man mythos in 2013, I loved the fact that in an era that was defined by Slott’s bombast and turmoil, someone new to the medium dared to tell a more simpler story about Peter Parker’s most important relationship — that to his Aunt May.
Paul Jenkins referred to it best as the “blueberry pie” conundrum for Spider-man. Basically, to get to the core of an effective Spider-Man story you have to imagine him swinging throughout New York City with a blueberry pie, and all of his villains and other problems are trying to either steal that pie from him, ruin in, etc. If you can make the survival of that blueberry pie come across as the highest stakes in Peter’s life, you’ve told a good Spider-Man story.
Morrell crafted what I would define as the best “blueberry pie” story of the modern era. Ergo, New York City was leveled with snow and Aunt May was left all alone without heat/electricity etc. Spider-Man had to find a way to get through the blizzard and be with his Aunt May to protect her from the cold.
But then things got super dramatic for Part Two. The day Amazing Spider-Man #700.2 came out (the numbering of these comics is outrageously stupid — especially since to my knowledge that don’t count as part of ASM’s overall “legacy” numbering) — I got an e-mail from Morrell. Morrell was distraught by the fact that a “bad” copy of the comic went to press. According to Morrell’s e-mail, several typos were in the script and an editor had inserted numerous “weak jokes.” He then proceeded to e-mail me a copy of the original script to demonstrate what he intended versus what was published.
As I said at the time, the typos were noticeable — and definitely soured what was otherwise a very effective story from my vantage. The “weak jokes” however, seemed like classic Spider-Man one-liners that I imagine were inserted by an editor because Morrell was just not comfortable writing these kinds of jokes (because he was new to the medium and Spider-Man). I didn’t think it was that offensive, but when responding to Morrell I was intentional in being kind and respectful to this legendary writer who had just spent time speaking to Dan and I about his comic.
A week or so later, I received a package in the mail (as did Dan) from Morrell that truly blew my mind. He signed both copies of his “Frost” story (from “Rambo’s Father”) and also included a printout of his full script for one of the issues. It was truly a classy move and one of the kindest things a comic book creator has done for me (though, to be fair, this podcast has allowed me to have several wonderful interactions from creators).
Morrell never wrote another Spider-Man comic — I’m not sure if he was just disgusted by the whole editorial snafu or if Marvel felt he was too old-fashioned to reach out to again (or both, or neither). Either way, with just two comics (that maybe or maybe don’t “count” according to the now antiquated standards of Spider-Talk counting), he made an incredible impression on me as a podcaster and collector; one that I’m more than happy to revisit every December.
Audience Comments/Questions Answered
With every new edition of the Amazing Spider-Talk Substack, Mark and Dan will answer your submitted questions about any topic that you might be interested in. They will prioritize submissions from the Amazing Spider-Talk Patreon (sign up), but lacking any queries there they will respond to questions asked in the comments below. To get your question potentially picked, the Patreon is the best way to submit them.
Alright, let’s dive into the mailbag and answer some of the questions posed to us from Patreon!
Taylor Murphy
Maybe this is something you’re trying to keep close to the vest, but have you guys brainstormed much on what you’ll do when you ultimately catch up to the Superior era with your seasonal content? Any desire to do a season covering just the original Ultimate Spidey? Spidey 2099? Or would you maybe continue to cover eras you’ve already reviewed on the show (Superior and beyond), but with new levels of hindsight/historical understanding thrown in to give it more of an overview feel?
Mark: Well, the good news is at the pace we’re currently moving through Spider-Man’s history, Dan and I will be 80 by the time we reach the Superior era.
In all seriousness, I feel like there’s an endless array of Spider-Man content out there for us to explore in a fashion where it would shock me if we ever truly “caught up” with when we started. Meaning, we’re still in the mid-80s in our seasonal content and are just now talking about two additional “B” books that brought a unique spin to the character. By the time we get to the 2000s, we’ll have multiple Spider-books, plus the launch of Ultimate, which could be a season’s worth of episodes in its own right, etc. Then there’s the era of blockbuster movies, higher end “prestige” animated series, and on and on and on.
With all that said, and to take the actual question you asked into consideration, I would be quite partial to exploring the Superior-era, as well as the creative runs and “eras” that followed through the lense of hysterical context and cultural impact. The Spider-Men miniseries and Dan Slott’s “Spider-Verse” likely can be talked about much different today due to the success of the “Into the Spider-Verse” franchise, than it did when the stories were first published in the early/mid-2010s. Who knows what iteration of a live-action Spider-Man we’ll be on at that point, which could also impact how we discuss the Tom Holland/MCU Spider-Man movies.
The point is — as I often discuss in my own comic book remembrances — time and context has a way of changing how one thinks about art and culture. The Spider-Talk podcast has already extended more than five years longer than I initially imagined it would. And I imagine Dan and I will find a way to adapt and evolve our coverage for what that time inevitably comes.
Dan: Mark said it better than I ever could. I think there is a ton of advantages to revisiting the content that we covered on the show with a more academic approach, rather than just giving our opinions at the time. Time has an amazing way of changing how we view things and providing clarity about what we’ve experienced. I already know a ton more about the production of the Superior Spider-Man era of comics than I did when we covered them that would likely address many of our criticisms and inform the way we look at those titles. The same is likely true of the Nick Spencer era of comics. I’m still holding out hope that both authors (and Zeb Wells) will come on our podcast to talk about their runs someday.
I remember at the end of our review of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 5) #74, the end of the Spencer run, we teased that we would be doing an episode looking back at the run in its entirety and discussing it. We cancelled that episode because we thought we just didn’t have enough time to look at it objectively and we wanted to revisit it later. That’s what, I think, the seasonal episodes of our show can provide.
We are at an interesting place with the show as we enter into the late 80s and early 90s. Spider-Man is about to take off in ways that will quickly dominate pop-culture and will make our show harder to be all-encompassing. I suspect it will mean us slowing down our approach and getting into the weeds of series like Ultimate Spider-Man, which… yes… could be and should be a whole season itself. The show will likely have to change and I don’t know that we’ve entirely figured out what that change will be. I mean, heck, I don’t even know how viable a platform podcasting is anymore. Is anyone still listening to our long-form reviews of single issues of Amazing Spider-Man? Will they be in ten years? I don’t know.
Joel
If you had the opportunity to write a 6-8 page back up story in an issue of Amazing-Spider-Man, what would it be about?
Dan: So, I feel like I can’t really answer this because I don't really want to give out any ideas for free or set up an expectation that I will ever have a chance to write for Marvel in any capacity. I won’t lie, I’ve mentioned that I’m currently pitching around a feminist sci-fi comic to indie publishers and it would be a thrill to write Spidey for even a page, but that prospect is a long way off.
I’ve thought a lot about what I would do if I had such an opportunity but it basically comes down to two choices for me:
Do I want to do a meta-comic that expresses how I feel about Spider-Man and his history, as a sort of summary of my love of Spidey?
Do I want to do an idealized version of what I think the best Spider-Man stories are without any sort of meta-commentary on the character?
Really, it’d be great to do both. A simple, short story that does what I think Spider-Man does best, but also expresses something that I think is profound about the character. I think the best example of this is something like fellow podcaster Jay Edidin’s (Jay and Miles X-Plain the X-Men) X-Men: Marvels Snapshots #1. In that story, a young Scott Summers witnesses the birth of the Marvel Universe, in a Marvels style, and fantasizes about his role in it. It’s a great look at the character of Cyclops and about his early dreams, insecurities, and pride, which also showcases Jay’s incredible grasp on what makes the character work as well as his skills as a comics writer.
I would also point to something like Chip Zdarsky’s Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man #310, which is almost entirely a meta-textual look at what he thinks is special about Spider-Man. I have criticized that issue for being a bit too reliant on rehashing some of the best Spider-Man comics from the past instead of providing it’s own perspective, but I think it ultimately comes together as a wonderful statement about Peter, Spider-Man, and superhero comics in general. What I like most is that it isn’t some angry screed about the repetitive nature of comics, like Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 5) #60 is. If I had the chance to do something as small as a single page story, it wouldn’t be to settle scores or make some angry statement about the decline of the character. Instead, it would be about my pure love for everything, good and bad, about the character and his publishing history.
I have a few plot ideas for what I’d do with a story of the type, but I’m not about to pitch it here. I just wanted to comment on what kinds of things go through my head when even considering something like writing even a page of a Spider-Man comic, something I truly don’t think will be accessible to me in my lifetime. But, it makes for a fun thought experiment.
Also, I would 100% advocate for Nick Cagnetti to illustrate it. That is beyond any doubt. Just imagine the pure nerdiness we could conjure on the page.
What’s New for the Amazing Spider-Talk?
Since the previous Amazing Spider-Talk Substack we’ve seen the release of our ninth episode of Season 6 of the podcast. This time it’s all the greatest pig in comics. No, not Razorback! Spider-Ham! Plus, one of the most awesome covers ever provided by artist Nick Cagnetti!
We also released our review of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #35, the final part of “Spidey’s First Hunt”, which debuted on Patreon a couple of months ago. In the issue Peter and MJ finally reconcile and the Green Goblin seemingly returns.
Plus! We reviewed the newest issue of Amazing Spider-Man, mentioned earlier, which is currently only available on our Patreon. But, we’ve got previews below of Mark’s recap of the event of that issue. So check it out for a preview of that review:
If you dug that recap, we hope you’ll check out the full review on our Patreon and help support our show and newsletter’s continued existence.
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Another question (that isn’t going to pad your newsletter... but I don’t care, I’m curious and wanna potentially give Dan an opportunity for some much needed bragging rights):
I know you guys are starting to dabble in collecting the other ongoing Spidey titles outside of Amazing. How far along are each of you on Spectacular, Web of, Adjective-less, etc.? Who is the non-Amazing leader of the pack here? (maybe ignore the fact that when I say it like that it sounds like an insult...)
Thanks for answering my question guys! Your responses were what I was hoping for. When we’re all 80 I hope you include clips from the early episodes as you revisit Superior and dunk on each other like the old man Muppets in the balcony seating ;)