"Gang War", Huh, Yeah! What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing.
Hi, we are Dapper Dan Gvozden and Mischievous Mark Ginocchio, co-hosts of the Amazing Spider-Talk podcast. With each newsletter we hope to give you greater access into our thoughts on the world of Spider-Man!
On the past few weeks of Amazing Spider-Talk Podcast we’ve been reviewing the “Gang War” issues of Amazing Spider-Man and we interviewed writers Melissa Flores and Steve Orlando, but in this Substack we wanted to use this entry to discuss our thoughts on “Gang War” as an event and check in with our thoughts on some of the biggest Spider-Man comic releases of the past few weeks. But first, please subscribe to this Substack!
And, if you want to help support what we do, plus get bonus episodes of the Amazing Spider-Talk, digital artwork, prints in the mail, and early access to every episode of the show, please check out our Patreon. Putting this together takes a lot of time, energy, and funds, so we would be hugely appreciative of your support.
We’ve even got our review of the end of “Gang War”, Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #44, for you to watch/listen to!
Now, let’s get to our discussion of this year’s epic Spider-event: “Gang War”!
So, what’d we think of “Gang War”?
The following is a discussion of the entire “Gang War” event. There will be minor spoilers for how the event ended and details about the various miniseries, but it should be a fairly safe read for those who are spoiler avoidant. That said, it is probably best to enter this discussion having read at least some of “Gang War”.
Dan: With the release of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #44 we’ve essentially reached the end of “Gang War” as an event, excluding the final release of Daredevil: Gang War #4. We'll be recording our thoughts on how the story played out across Amazing Spider-Man in our podcast review, but I wanted to use this space to talk about the event as a whole. Surely, coordinating this project took a herculean effort, between the large quantity and variety of books having to hit their release dates, the volume of talent spread across the globe, and the logistical planning within the Marvel Comics Universe that made sure that something like “Gang War” made sense.
We’ve noted some ups and downs about specific stories, but I think from a logistical/production standpoint this was one of the more successful Marvel event stories. The books all shipped on time, there were no obvious fill-ins for writing or art duties, and each story felt like it made sense within its own universe while also contributing to the whole (major props to the gang territory map that helped to make sense of everything). Say what you will about each title, but the only book that I felt obviously suffered, at least narratively, was Amazing Spider-Man itself. Now, that’s a huge caveat, given it is the premiere title of the line and where all eyes are going to be looking to judge “Gang War”’s success, but as a platform for stories that share settings and characters, I felt this was one of the better implemented scenarios from the “House of Ideas” in some time. This is especially true, for me, when comparing it to contemporary event storylines like “Fall of X”, which I’ve had a hell of a time following.
Mark, before we talk about the overall story of “Gang War”, what are some of your thoughts on the implementation of it as a Marvel comics event out of the Spider-Office?
Mark: Well, as a starting point, contrary to what you eloquently laid out, I hesitate to call this a “success.” Yes, it shipped on time, the creative teams were consistent, and each of the books told an individual story. But in terms of how “Gang War” functioned as a holistic event… that’s a much trickier thing to assess.
Dismissing the kick-off to “Gang War” in First Strike, one of my overarching criticisms of “Gang War” the “event” is that there wasn’t a terrible lot of meat on these bones to justify creating a story that occupied the space of a jumbo-sized prelude, six issues of Amazing Spider-Man, three issues of Miles Morales, and four miniseries built around Luke Cage, Jessica Drew, Shang-Chi and Elektra/Daredevil. Perhaps if “Gang War” as a storyline ever truly rose above the level of “just a bunch of underworld villains fighting each other” I would be painting a different picture now that it’s in its final throes. But alas, First Strike is chock full of ideas that had promise for building an event — Randy Robertson’s attempted murder, the Anti-Vigilante Act, Miles being disappointed in Peter, etc. — that ultimately felt loosely connected and were never addressed in the actual execution of these comics.
Beyond the vague idea of “violence” in the background of each of these stories, at no point did I feel like I was reading an intricately plotted event where each of these stories meaningfully tied into each other a la “Spider-Island” (still, the GOAT when it comes to effective Spider-office events) or “Spider-Verse,” which we all know is not a favorite event of mine (SECRET SCROLLS!), but heck, all of those books actually felt like they were SUPPOSED to be connected to each other and worth reading to have a better holistic understanding of the event.
With all that said, there was nothing about any of these stories I found to be offensively bad… just a lot of stuff I wasn’t particularly interested in. Shang-Chi’s mini perhaps had the best arc to it, though also felt the most disconnected from the main story. Luke Cage: Gang War had its moments, though I would have preferred his antagonist to be more related to the central premise of “Gang War” than Alistair Smythe.
Dan did any of these minis specifically speak to you in an impactful way, or at the very least, are there any highlights you want to point out?
Dan: I agree with you that much of “Gang War” felt sectioned out, even neighborhood by neighborhood - as best represented on the map that showcased the various territories. As such, many of these minis felt isolated from the whole, save for a few perfunctory check-ins with Madame Masque, Spider-Man, and their respective teams. But, I think I’ve accepted that as part of the design of the event, which even Tombstone spells out in Amazing Spider-Man: the Spider-team’s aim was to allow smaller battles to play out while they focused on taking down the biggest foes.
Different books had varying results on how well they integrated the entirety of “Gang War” into the title. I agree with you that Deadly Hands of Kung Fu: Gang War probably handled this the best, given its location-specific plotting. But, I enjoyed most of these titles overall and found that some of the creators found a way to make this a meaningful update to each hero’s story, rather than a perfunctory event tie-in. The best of these was probably the crossover into the ongoing events of Miles Morales: Spider-Man, if only because it’s, in my opinion, the best ongoing title coming out of the Spider-office at the moment, or at least the one with the clearest direction for its protagonist. Writer Cody Ziglar put Miles up against a meaningful foe in Hobgoblin, brought back a new villain in Rabble and gave her something important to do, foregrounded the Cape-Killers’ plot before Fisk’s Powers Act was set to be overturned, and used it all as a way to get Vicentini drawing Miles’ superhero friends reforming their team.
While I’m not in love with the direction that Spider-Woman: Gang War took Gerry Drew, reusing a fairly tired, superhero child, plot trope to age up Jessica’s son (I’m looking at you Nomad and heck… even Winter Soldier), the book took a hard swing to use “Gang War” in a substantive way to launch the title in a new direction. Daredevil: Gang War hasn’t concluded yet, but aside from solid art and characterization I have yet to truly connect with it. I, like you, thought that Luke Cage: Gang War started strong but was ultimately a miss and should have been the book where all the politics over the Powers Act played out. We talked about Jackpot in our previous Substack, so no need to repeat the details of my disappointment with that title.
So here I am, stating that I’m overall feeling positive on this event and yet as I continue to lay my thoughts out I’m realizing that perhaps, I wasn’t. At least on a micro-level. I think I enjoyed this thing from a helicopter view, admiring that it felt like there was at least a plan that made sense, teams who executed on the plan without overstepping their boundaries or abandoning the overall theme of the event, etc. I guess what I’m saying is: it didn’t feel like a “Gang War” in the Spider-offices when I’m so used to these events, across all sectors of Marvel, often feeling like aimless messes where no one has any coherent vision for the thing across a half dozen titles. Did I love all the stories, or even the main story, in “Gang War”? No. But it felt like a chapter of the Marvel universe that I could point to and say, “Cool idea. I remember that.” Damning with faint praise, I know. But that’s where I’m at.
And yes, it’s no “Spider-Island”. Steve Wacker remains the champ at pulling off miracle event stories within the pages of both Marvel and DC. I love that event, but even it was riddled with one-shots we’ll never think of again. I’m looking at you Spider-Island: Infested, Spider-Island: Daily Bugle, Spider-Island: I Love New York, etc. I dare you to tell me what happened in any of those comics.
But, more seriously: What do you think is the “special sauce” of an event like “Spider-Island”? How should that guide Marvel when putting together these - what seem to be yearly - Spider-Man events?
Mark: In terms of the “special sauce,” I think if you’re going to pump up the page count and create so many tie-ins, then you need to justify it by making the reading experience feel like it “matters.” And by that I mean, while I’m not a proponent of making Spider-Man fans spend upwards of a few hundred dollars in comics just to “understand” the main thrust of a storyline per se, if you are going to pump out so much content, that content should at least accentuate and augment the main story in Amazing Spider-Man. I just don’t feel like “Gang War” accomplished that. The stories were fine in their own separate ways, but they did little-to-nothing to illustrate how all of these disparate characters were connected to Spider-Man’s larger battle. We set up Spider-Man’s alliance with everyone early, but outside of the occasional perfunctory check-in during these side missions, I never got the sense that any of them truly cared about the Spider-Man of it all at any point. It’s probably most egregious in the Spider-Woman, Daredevil and Deadly Hands of Kung-Fu stories, but even in instances of low-hanging fruit like Miles and Luke Cage, we just never got a call back back to Spider-Man in a meaningful way.
In the two examples I gave earlier, “Spider-Island” and “Spider-Verse”, I felt like all of those offshoots were connected to the Spider-Man of it all in very clear, concise ways. “Spider-Island” was super streamlined because everyone involved in that story is grappling with the idea of all of New York City having spider-powers. “Spider-Verse” of course is all of the spider-characters fighting the Inheritors and not becoming “fuel” for Morlun and his family.
And perhaps this is a reflection of a very crucial point you raised in a recent podcast recording: it feels like Amazing Spider-Man has evolved from a Spider-Man book into a “Marvel Book.” And if you’re treating “Gang War” like it’s a company-wide event a la “Civil War” or “House of M” then, sure, you set-up a bunch of minis with loose connections to the larger event and it makes sense. Instead, we got one of the most disparate feeling “Spider-events” of all-time. And arguably, that’s by design.
Dan: It truly does get harder and harder to justify trusting the Spider-office to deliver on the promise of an event, especially after the conclusions to the Spencer era, “Beyond”, “Dead Language”, and now “Gang War”. I think the unifying factor between all of them is an inability to conclude their stories in any kind of satisfying way. I think we both are intimately familiar with the idea that serialized comics are always opening a back door at the end of stories to allow for someone else to continue any of the threads established previously, but these non-conclusions feel different.
We’ll definitely talk about the events of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #44 in our Patreon podcast review (listen to that to understand the full context of my comments here), but the thing these endings share is that they don’t seem at all interested in the themes of the stories they are a part of. The Kindred story promised us a resolution to the problem with Peter’s soul, his relationship with MJ, and the sins of “One More Day”, instead it brushed everything under the rug for a convoluted retcon of Harry Osborn that somehow made the Spider-Man timeline more confusing. “Beyond” promised us some kind of redemption/tragedy for Ben Reilly, finally letting him be a hero at the cost of trusting an unsavory corporation, before haphazardly tossing him into psychoactive goo and transforming him beyond recognition (this one almost worked). “Dead Langauges” promised us that we would finally learn what happened to Peter and MJ with a grand statement on the future of the couple and instead the book pivoted to randomly kill Ms. Marvel.
It’s easy to suggest that this book is having a hard time finding room to tell Spider-Man stories, but that seems to be a problem unique to Zeb Wells’ time on the title. Is it fair to say that this line of books, as competently produced by a variety of incredible talents as they are, has a grander storytelling problem?
Mark: As I said during our podcast about the ending of “Dead Language,” what does this particular assembly of creators and editors want to say about Spider-Man and his ancillary universe of characters? Who is Spider-Man and his supporting cast? What is driving them right now? Over the many, many years of my fandom, there have been various debates about some of the central tenets and themes of Spider-Man: responsibility, youth, etc. Due to its size and scope, “Gang War” demonstrated more than, I think, any other storyline over the past couple of years just how much the powers that be that are shaping Spider-Man right now either don’t know how to answer that question, or are plainly uninterested in doing so. It’s frankly astounding to me that we have reached this point — how do you not know what you want your flagship character’s stories to be about? — but I do think that’s where we’re at. Until someone with actual authority in the Spider-office arrives at that answer, we’re going to keep collectively meandering and the storytelling issues will continue, regardless of who is on script, pencils, inks or colors.
What’d you think of “Gang War”? Let us know in the comments below.
Swarm’s B(ee)-Title Reviews
With every new edition of the Amazing Spider-Talk Substack, Dan and Mark will venture to write short reviews of all the various Spider-Man books (and major Marvel releases) that have released since the previous newsletter. Sometimes our arch-villain Swarm might chime in as well. So “bee” prepared!
Dan: Mark and I are short on time this week, so instead of reviewing every B-title (of which there are many) we thought we’d cover the biggest books of the bunch: Ultimate Spider-Man #2 and Spider-Punk: Arms Race #1.
Ultimate Spider-Man (vol. 3) #2
Mark: It’s kind of stunning to me that a Spider-Man comic book that has completely removed the “Uncle Ben/tragedy drives me to be Spider-Man” of it all that has defined this character and all of his variants for more than 60 years, seems to have the firmest grasp of Peter Parker’s voice and personality when compared to any other Spider-title currently on the market. This comic was just a total joyride to read from start to finish that is marked by a sense of wonder the character has for his new powers (and is thusly transferred to the reader) and some of the best humor we’ve yet to see in a modern Spider-Man book (When reading Peter’s interactions with the Shocker, I honestly didn’t think Jonathan Hickman had it in him, but my god, this is everything I had hoped a Chip Zdarsky Spider-Man book would be in the joke department). Additionally, this comic is using the family-angle masterfully, and demonstrating that this is not just a marketing gimmick. And let’s not forget that Marco Checchetto is a master of his craft (again) and producing the stellar work that is driving this story forward in breathtaking fashion.
If I went through this comic with a fine tooth comb, I would find some criticisms for sure — the “why” of this version of Peter Parker/Spider-Man still seems to be unsettled two issues in, as does the logic behind keeping this version of Uncle Ben alive while killing off May (meaning, how will these choices ultimately shape this story, and by proxy, Peter’s story beyond “we’re just doing it differently”). With all that said, my goodness do I enjoy reading this so far, and it’s far and away the comic I most look forward to seeing in my pull box at the moment.
Dan: I continue to be in awe of Hickman’s patience with a book like Ultimate Spider-Man. We are two issues in and we’ve barely scratched the surface of all the various plots and characters that he’s introduced into this world. Some of that is annoying, I still don’t quite know what is driving this Peter outside of feeling some sort of obligation to destiny, but most of it is intoxicating, I’m dying to know what Uncle Ben and J. Jonah Jameson are going to get up to. But above all, the writing oozes confidence and a willingness to invest in the characters and events of their world, with the knowledge that eventually we’ll get to the fireworks factory. (Honestly, the twice-shipping ASM could learn to be this patient and simultaneously specific with its storytelling.)
Marco Checchetto is doing most of the work here, imbuing life into characters who haven’t gotten robust characterization up to this point, including his soulful rendition of Mary Jane. Translating his grounded, textured work from Daredevil to an adult Spider-Man just finding his legs/webs has really given this title weight, even if it’s just the physicality of Peter slamming into a water tower. But Hickman’s dialogue is no slouch either, oftentimes echoing the lifelike speech techniques of Bendis’ Ultimate Spider-Man without belaboring the point. But, it is the internal monologue of Peter that makes this such a humanistic piece. Reading Peter’s thoughts as he works out his desires and choices, all while scolding himself for his mistakes, is exactly the pleasure that made Peter such a relatable “everyman” for most of his existence.
In the end, Ultimate Spider-Man has settled into a fairly comfortable read. But that’s also my biggest concern for the title. I feel like all the elements that were set to establish this as a wholly unique take on Spider-Man haven’t yet played into the story in any major way. We’ve got some family dynamics, lip-service to his marriage to MJ, a separate subplot involving his Uncle Ben which doesnt’ quite touch on Peter’s life, the Kingpin running Spider-Man propaganda from The Bugle, a primary Green Goblin played by Harry Osborn, and Aunt May dead from a terrorist attack. And yet, Peter reads just like the same guy we’ve always known. I’m ready for this take to really firmly establish a place for itself separate from Amazing Spider-Man and all the other contemporary takes on the character. I feel like we haven’t quite gotten there yet, but I’m enjoying this enough to be patient.
Spider-Punk: Arms Race #1
Mark: Cody Ziglar brings a raw energy and verve to his return to Hobie Brown and Earth-138, but he also brings a lot of characters and ideas that don’t seem to fully connect in a holistic way in this debut issue. I’m sure some of this is by design — it wouldn’t be terribly “punk rock” for this comic to be without a healthy dose of chaos. If anything, after providing Hobie with such a distinct voice in his last Spider-Punk outing, I was hoping for just a little bit more of the character here in his reintroduction. With that said, I’m sure the comic book speculators are going to have a field day with this comic with new alternate versions of T’Challa and Shuri now out in the wild.
Meanwhile, Justin Mason’s art is just plain fun — I had to reacquaint myself with the fact that he provided the pencils for Spider-Man 2099: Dark Genesis last year. Mason’s dynamic stylings matches the energy of Ziglar’s script, while Morry Hollowell’s colors just pop off the page. Just like any good (commercial) punk album, there was more than enough thrust and drive here to make me look forward to what’s coming next.
Dan: I continue to be a bit mixed on Ziglar and Mason’s interpretation of Spider-Punk. I think that’s mostly due to it feeling like a pretty standard young adult comic book with the stylings of ‘80s punk, rather than a book imbued with the spirit of punk rock. Jed Mackay’s original stories with Hobie were all edgy, violent, metaphorical tales that used superhero genre to comment on the music industry and how it impacts and stands up to totalitarian governments and corporations. They felt legitimately transgressive and unique to the world of Spider-Man comics. Mason’s artwork, I feel, carries on some of that legacy, and is conventionally more attractive than Sheldon Vella and Gerardo Sandoval’s artwork that defined the character in Spider-Verse #2 and Edge of Spider-Geddon #1.
It is Ziglar’s writing, as solid as it is, that I don’t think embraces the potential of the Spider-Punk concept as much as Jed Mackay did. Reading this book alongside his excellent work in Miles Morales: Spider-Man and I can’t help but find that they read far too similar. Both feature an outsider teen team of superheroes embracing new roles for themselves and having to step up into leadership positions. Spider-Punk: Arms Race definitely has more freedom to play loosely with the toys, including redesigning familiar foes and friends alike, but for it to feel truly punk it needs to break rules and spit in the face of convention. I don’t think Ziglar has gotten daring enough with the comic to bring the house crashing down quite yet.
What’s New for the Amazing Spider-Talk?
Since the previous Amazing Spider-Talk Substack we’ve had a lot going on. But, the most fantastic thing we’ve done is our interview with Steve Orlando, the writer of the various Spider-Man 2099 mini-series over the past two years.
We also publicly released our review of Amazing Spider-Man (vol. 6) #41, formerly only released on our Patreon.
We hope you enjoyed this twelfth edition of the Amazing Spider-Talk Substack and that you’ll consider subscribing for our future newsletters.
And, if you haven’t already, please subscribe to our various podcasts, comment below, and consider joining our Patreon:
Gonna wait for May to pick up the “GangWar” trade. After “Spider-Punk:battle of the banned” I got to wondering, if Hobbi Brown was the OG Prowler, could Spider-Punk also have a nephew named Miles in his universe? Currently reading “Spideys First Hunt”(32-38)while Mile’s spider sense is malfunctioning as he faces off against an unhinged Hobgoblin (8-12) Reread the Mighty Marvel Masterworks reprinting vol. 1, 21-31,issues that paint JJJ in such a villainous light it immediately led me to rereading “Matters of Life & Death” coincidentally the day before the post recapping “No one Dies”(655) & wondered how much inspiration Slott took from those earliest Lee/Ditko era issues. Unfortunately, Waited too long and the local shops were sold out of Ultimate & superior number 1. Hoping to find them on EBay if I’m lucky&that they’re not too overpriced. But snagged two copies of Spectacular Spider-men this afternoon. First direct editions I’ve picked up since Wellz Amazing issue 1 & Slotts Amazing 800 before that. Had to grab Two copies, in traditional geek fashion, one to read&one to never remove from the bag. A lot of great books dropping ATM. Thanks & looking forward to the always reliable reviews. Nuff Said.
Because of Spider Talk’s analyses, I now find myself appreciating Spider-Man stories thru thematic lenses, as per Dan. Specifically, stories should answer, as per Mark, “Who is Spider-Man and his supporting cast? What is driving them right now?” I do hope the Spider Office gets to hear your inputs because they are really sensible. If not, then I still enjoy how you guys articulate your complaints which usually end in citing examples strung in a very entertaining fashion. Always a pleasure reading about your thoughts guys!